John Bryant Interviews Jay from Texas and Moishe Pippik

Appearing, Joe from Pennsylvania and Joseph Rorie

10/19/08
First Amendment Radio

(wwfar.com/listen.html)

Final Program with John Bryant

Liberty Forum will be continued with Nicholas with occasional appearances with John Bryant in the same time slot, Sundays at 7 p.m., Eastern Time.

[John] …and the best minds that we have come across in twelve years of doing Liberty Forum as what I’ve called it, at least, for the last nine or ten years, our on-air search into understanding the relationship between what we know as government and the people and, of course, looking for solutions to being treated as though we are property and something less than being live God-created creatures with freedom, a gift of freedom, and our own intelligence and will. It’s been an extremely interesting journey for me. It’s just been fabulous. Between our guests and our listeners, callers, people I’ve met along the way, it’s just been a tremendous experience and I’m having definite mixed feelings about this but the reason for it, again, is like they say, personal reasons. One is I’ve got to deal with some economic things; I’ve just been a pauper, really, for these years and this thing’s been a labor of love. It’s been two separate items, I mean, you could do both in many cases and a lot of people do get a lot of things accomplished. I just haven’t been able to do that. So, what I need to do is listen more to what’s going on other places, put some things into practice, deal with some of the economics and deal with some family issues and so it looks as though Nicolas Arthur at First Amendment Radio who has been just terrific in allowing this show to happen the way it has and being so encouraging He is planning to continue Liberty Forum in a similar sense, in other words, a guest-driven broadcast at the same time and I would guess that if something came up where I thought there was someone I wanted to get on and that I wanted to handle it he would probably allow me to do it in the future, here or there, oncein a while. I’m not sure if that will happen or not. I know there’s some people that I haven’t gotten on that I really would love to have gotten on including Dr. Moulden out of Canada, a young man who has spent many years in various forms of higher education dealing with the brain and it looks like maybe making some breakthroughs in dealing with vaccines and Alzheimer’s. I hope that is the case. He’s also running for Parliament. I’m not sure if he was successful; that vote was this week. He was on with Joyce Riley here a couple weeks ago if you want to search that out—Dr. Moulden. There’s an architect, Richard Gage, who has just gotten on fire with the inconsistencies surrounding the World Trade Center destruction and I would love to have spoken with him. Who knows, we’ll maybe get these people lined up with Nicolas or whoever is going to be handling the show. Henry Makow of www.savethemales.ca, the inventor of the Scruples board game, a Jewish man in Canada who is probably one of the—I mean, he is just a fine example of an open-minded searcher, one who is really looking, I believe, to find out what’s going on in a real sense in the world and, of course, I believe that many Jews have been as much or more burdened with brainwashing for the lack of a better term. They have been used and abused in the struggle for world power by people who call themselves Jews, especially. So, Henry Makow is really a breath of fresh air. Eustace Mullins, I met Eustace but I’ve never had him on the show. Eustace Mullins, of course, was a protégé of Ezra Pound. We need to know more about Ezra Pound, the poet, who was actually put in a psychiatric hospital and basically left there to live out his days. Eustace Mullins also has written numerous books and Ezra Pound, I think, was the influence that had him start withSecrets of the Federal Reserve. Eustace is still alive and as far as I know in good mental state and so he’s a guy that I would love to have on, as well. And the people that are doing the legal work out here and this is such a core issue, this reason that we have kind of focused on, recourse and remedy in the law, as well as understanding the nature of this relationship because without understanding the nature of the relationship you don’t know where to start in the law. But people keep surfacing who have done really, really good work and I believe people like our guests, tonight, Jay from Texas and Moishe Pippik who are working together. They communicate and share what they’re doing. Randal Kelton, Mike Beider who Jay recommends and I’ve heard a little bit of Mike. He’s on the new network somewhere but Google Mike Beider, Joseph Rorie, L.B. Bork, of course, Kevin Haddock, who initially brought us some really revolutionary, literally revolutionary ideas, using negotiable instruments and commercial processes in order to bill those who would abuse you for their abusing you. And that’s being utilized in the present, at least that notion. You can go to NI Revolution at yahoo groups. Of course, Howard Griswold and let me get you—I thought I had Howard’s number right handy but Howard does a conference call twice a week. His Thursday call is the law session. The same number, 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time. This is basically Howard’s radio show. It’s a conference call. Again, Monday for water—he’s onto a type of water he believes is very beneficial. I don’t know much about that but his law conference call is on Thursday, 8 p.m., Eastern Time. The telephone number, 218-936-1200.

You can interact with Howard on this thing. It’s really a good medium if you’ve got the ability to call at 218-936-1200 and the pin is 966771#. Howard is in the thick of it and he is communicating with these people and, of course, Randal is hopefully putting together a group of people. I hope to connect them up with Bobby Loman in addition to the people I’ve mentioned. We’ve got to give a lot of credit to Rice McLeod who even though he wasn’t 100% right he got some real kernels of the essence of knowing who you are in relationship to the fictitious world out here of corporations and governments and so on. Rice has had a couple of strokes. He continues to battle and try to regain use of his faculties there in Texas—just a wonderful man.

People like David Parker and Greg Pappas have helped us and just guests that have been just too numerous to mention now. But it’s like Jay says, everybody has got something to offer, virtually everybody’s got something to offer. We have been down a lot of rabbit trails but not forever, I don’t think. And we learned a lot over the time, here, so please listen to everyone and I wish I had recited this sooner and more often but listen to everyone. Believe no one. Do your own work and come to your own conclusions, that’s the way it’s got to work. Don’t be afraid to listen to the farthest left-wing radical. If the guy is on the pursuit of reality and truth he’ll be going probably the same direction you are. The language is what gets in the way and this is what the system has done, it’s promoted concepts and trigger words that keep people separated. But, anyway, if you do that listen to everybody. Believe nobody without doing your own work and then come to your own conclusions. I believe those from whatever background, whatever kind of parents, whatever kind of educational training are going to find common ground and will come to, I believe, solutions toward dealing with the problems of society and doing it in a way that preserves our liberty. I really want to thank you for putting up with my stumbles, my foibles, my loss of words that are appropriate at times and the technical glitches often from being a klutz at times and sometimes being on the road. But it’s been a little rocky at times but I think over all that we’ve made some headway and I will miss so much about this. It’s unbelievable. At the same time I want to stay in communication with people as I can. My e-mail for what it’s worth and I presume it will stay there for a while is libertyforumnow@hotmail.com. And I’m terrible about writing letters or e-mails but I’ll usually respond at least in a cursory brief fashion. And I will appreciate getting something from you if you have something to send. And that ought to do it. Really, I will miss this and with that let’s see, I think that Moishe has joined us. Jay is fairly well occupied but will join us for a few minutes here. They’re on to some very interesting stuff and I hope we can do it justice, here tonight. Moishe, are you back there? What’s happening is the understand is progressing here even further about the nature of recourse and remedy against those who would do criminal damage based on their law for them and the nature of the commercial nature of government and the connection to U.N., the things that happened in the law that just have been discovered and I’m not sure whether it was Jay or Moishe who actually—I think it was Moishe who actually ran across some key pieces here about what happened just following the Civil War and we know that the 14^th Amendment was pushed through the Southern states at that time under an occupation government. It was never ratified properly.

I wanted that information to get out and that’s good. Moishe we’re just heading into the meat now. I just need to say some things because it looks like this will be the last regular show that I’m going to do for a while. Anyway, you guys are making some—it’s too bad that the circumstances are such that I feel like I’ve got to step out, right now, because it’s getting more and more exciting. But at the same time it’s going to give me a chance to really keep up with what’s going on instead of just trying to arrange a show every week on top of dealing with things here. So I’m really excited and I’m excited about the fact that people are communicating because for years we found that some of the best researchers thought that their work was the cat’s meow and anybody else that didn’t just support what they were doing they didn’t have time for. Well, things are changing and people are communicating and contributing and the growth is happening. I believe it’s beginning to be exponential. It’s taking off, it’s great and what you guys are doing is right on the leading edge. I’ve got to pull up some things that were sent to me so that I can refer to them and also I probably didn’t do enough, as far as notes were concerned, and that’s part of the reason I shouldn’t be doing this on a regular basis, either, because I’m not giving it the attention that it really deserves. But what’s happening is that you all are really finding new possibilities at this point. They’re not exactly proven, yet, from my understanding but for understanding the Achilles heal of those who are so abusive to us whether they be judges, prosecutors, legislators or just someone whether even, anybody who is in the job of enforcement, here. If they don’t do it properly they may find themselves personally in jeopardy and this is what is absolutely needed in order to bring some change. I need to mention one other thing before we jump in and it had to do with just this list of things that I wanted to cover. There was one thing that has bothered me and what these guys are doing, now, and I say these guys because it’s Moishe and Jay, I believe are at the forefront in some areas. Others are in the forefront in some other areas but they’re working together. My regret is that there are so many people in jail that should not be in jail and there is a, for what it’s worth, a prison ministry, I’m not sure where it’s going at thewww.realpublicradio.com. Those people in jail need, that are there without doing damage to someone or their property and that is probably, I would say, it’s close to the majority if it’s not the majority. It’s a huge number of people and we’re talking millions. We’ve not made any headway there that I know of but I hope we’re on the forefront of making some headway there.

So, Moishe, that’s pretty much what I have to say. Tell us what’s happening, here, as far as the understanding of basically—it looks as though the people were set free in the sense of an expatriation after the Civil War. Is that something—am I right, there?

[Moishe] Well, yes and no. First you have to determine who you are and what your affiliations are and let’s remember that being a Republican or a Democrat or being a party to the current government we’re in you have a religious affiliation with those organizations. It really is, it’s religious belief, the red states, the blue states. So, the expatriation is one remedy if you feel that you have been forced into having an allegiance to a foreign state, foreign to being an American citizen. Now, the flip side of that is if you’re a foreign state you have foreign sovereign immunity. So, which way do you want to go with this? Maybe you have strong ties to your religious beliefs. If that is the case then you have an allegiance to a foreign state and therefore the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act can apply to you unless you waive that immunity. I believe that we all—it’s self-determination whether or not you’re a foreign state and you have to read through these titles and these acts and come to an understanding from your own perspective of whether or not you can claim to be a foreign state. If you don’t believe you’re a foreign state, well then, I don’t think you can claim Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act. But if you determine by self-determination that you’re a foreign state to whoever is coming against you, you have certain immunities that are defined very clearly in the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act of 1976 as well as Title 28, Chapter 97 of the United States Code and Chapter 97 talks about jurisdictional immunities of foreign states. There’s a whole bunch of immunities in there but if you don’t think you’re a foreign state it would probably not work very well for you to claim foreign sovereign immunity.

[John] Moishe, is there a definition that you can rely on?

[Moishe] Well, let’s talk about definitions for a minute. If I am foreign to some other land, can that other land tell me by definition that I’m foreign?

[John] No.

[Moishe] Ok. Let me read you the definition of a foreign state. This is right out of 28 USC 1603, definitions, subsection A. A foreign state except as used in Section 1608 of this title includes a political subdivision of a foreign state or an agency or an instrumentality of a foreign state as defined in Subsection B, below. So, we’ve just gone around in a circle on what the definition of a foreign state is by defining with the term itself.

[John] Yes.

[Moishe] Ok. So let’s go down in Subsection B. An agency or instrumentality of a foreign state means any entity. Now I went ahead and went to Black's Law Dictionary, cannot use the fourth edition, entity is described as any living being. Now, if you’ve read enough of these definitions and the United States Code you can kind of see how they use punctuations in certain ways and they use definitions in certain ways. Now, the way that they define an agency or an instrumentality of a foreign state right out of the 28 USC 1603 if you look very closely when it says, ‘any entity’ it then has a dash behind it and it has sub-subsections 1, 2 and 3. Any entity-Subsection 1 which is separate, which is a separate legal person, corporate or otherwise and, two, which is an organ of a foreign state or political subdivision or a majority of whose shares or other ownership interests that’s owned by a foreign state and, three, which is neither a citizen of a state, from the United States as defined in Section 1332. Now, those are all very nice definitions but we can pretty much stop at when it says, foreign state means any entity because everything below that supplements it and is basically saying it should look like this but it doesn’t have to unless, of course, you read it another way. That’s the way I read it and no other human being is going tell me that I’m misinterpreting the way I’m reading something because I’m not going to give them authority to do that. So, that is something that has taken me a long time to learn. Now, if I believe that this definition applies to me, guess what, it does.

[John] Moishe, you know what, we should be into our break. I hope that Jay joins us, too; this is powerful stuff and I want to let you guys have the run of the show as long as we can, here. There’s the break now. We’ll be back with Moishe Pippik and Jay from Texas when he calls in right after the break. You’re listening to Liberty Forum.

{break]

[John] Returning here, it sounds like Jay has joined us. Jay, I want you to lay out as much as you can while you can and then Moishe can pick up. I know you guys have both have contributed to this nucleus of understanding that’s coming together now. And, Jay, you started out talking to me about what a court can use to get jurisdiction. You indicated the all-cap name, a last name and a personal appearance. Now, that’s for what kind of jurisdiction? Oops—hello. Jay was on; I heard him. Well, ok. Jay is out in the boonies on a cell phone. Moishe, maybe you can address because I know you guys work…

[Moishe] Sure. Well, let’s go back to something that’s basically been established as fact in this and other movements and that is that we have the right as defendants or as plaintiff to bring in the substantive law form. Do you agree with that statement?

[John] I would hope so and Jay is back.

[Jay] Hi.

[John] Hi, Jay. Do you think this will work for a few minutes?

[Moishe] Jay?

[John] Well, maybe, maybe not. Join us, Jay, when you’re here if you’re listening.

[Moishe] Well, if we don’t claim a specific jurisdiction one will be applied to it whether they lie, cheat, steal or any other way to induce us into some behavioral action that’s going to create some presumption of jurisdiction on their part. That’s a very good point—yes. And jurisdiction is nothing more than the authority also known as permission of the court to rule—ok?

[John] Very good—yes.

[Moishe] When a court says, ‘we have jurisdiction’ or a judge says, ‘I have jurisdiction,’ what we need to do is say, ‘you’re alleging jurisdiction. What jurisdiction would that be? And, of course, they’ll go around in a circle without answering the question and it is of my firm belief at this point that if they allege it, it needs to be rebutted but most likely they won’t allege a specific jurisdiction because there is maybe fifty different kinds of jurisdiction, civil, criminal, county, I mean, bankruptcy—what jurisdiction is it? And as soon as that judge claims a specific jurisdiction say, ‘no, judge, no, that is not the jurisdiction of this court. The jurisdiction of this court is foreign sovereign immunity, that’s the jurisdiction. Now, if they want to rebut that they’re going to have prove a whole bunch of stuff which means they’re going to have to start opening up all the information that they’ve been relying on in secret. If they try to tell me that I’m not a foreign state and if they try to claim that I’m a corporation I’m still immune by the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act. And if they claim I’m a citizen, well then, I can just claim the 11^th Amendment.

Amendment XI - Judicial Limits.Ratified 2/7/1795. Note / History

The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.

[John] As soon as they claim something you’ve got the ammunition to use.

[Moishe] Absolutely. This is not for the novice beginner for the most part. They will test us—they will. They will try to get us to explain our position. They are going to refuse to look at paperwork promptly submitted and timely submitted until the day of reckoning—the court appearance. So, we have to know this stuff but it’s getting to the point, now, where there’s really no more rabbit trails. There’s probably about ten pages worth of information. Chapter 97 of Title 28 has Section 1602 through 1611. If you know those chapters or those sections one should be able to deal with their adversaries very quickly and promptly and in Section 1602 through 1611 defines quite specifically what is and what is not immune under the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act. You are not immune if you are in commerce and you have a contract and you’re in breach of it. You’re not going to be immune from committing some crime where there’s an injured party and then it also defines even if you don’t fall under the immunity part, it proscribes specifically which courts this has to be brought before. It has to go to a district court. And not only that it has to go to the district court within Washington, D.C.

[John] That’s interesting because that’s the court that has been looked at as an Article Three court.

[Moishe] I think that’s the Court of Claims—yes.

[John] Is Jay with us? Jay has called in; he can hear but he can’t speak—I mean, we can’t hear him. So I don’t know what’s going on there on the board but or whatever. Jay is going to try on the other line. This is powerful stuff.

[Moishe] The Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act is not to get away with committing crimes—that’s not what the purpose of it is. But we also know even criminals have rights to be prosecuted under specific rules and regulations. And if their own rules and regulations are not followed they are no better than the criminals themselves.

[John] Ok, now Jay has joined us. Jay?

[Jay] Can you hear me?

[John] We can hear you.

[Moishe] Hi, Jay.

[Jay] Hi, Moishe. Now, I don’t know where you’ve been because I’ve been off for a little bit. Where are we at?

[Moishe] Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act.

[John] Yeah, just really getting started here with the Foreign SovereignImmunities Act.

[Jay] Have you brought up 8 USC 1481?

[Moishe] Not yet.

[Jay] Oh, well then continue and when we get into the meat then I’m going tojump in.

[Moishe] Well, we’ve been talking about the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act and we spent some time on the definitions and 28 USC 1603 and then we started talking about the immunities and then if you don’t fall under the immunity then there’s a specific court that you must be brought into as a foreign state and that is the United States District Court within Washington, D.C. and that’s where we’re at.

[Jay] Ok, continue.

[John] Go ahead, Moishe, I’ve got a few… Jay brought up some things like what this corporation is that we’re dealing with that has governmental functions or governance functions, what it really is. I mean, you’ve got to look at all of these things in a different light. Our preconceived notions of what these things are, who we are and what the government is are not necessarily correct it looks like.

[Moishe] Right.

[Jay] Yeah, 28 USC 3002, the United States is a corporation and they consider all of us corporations. If you go through and find the Delaware Codes you’ll find the definition in the Delaware Codes of corporations. It’s the exact likeness of a human being except it has no soul. So consequently they establish your corporation, your strawman or whatever you want to call it by the use of all capital letters. They also use it, your last name. All corporations have to have a last name. And, of course, you’re there; you made an appearance. So consequently all those things blend together to form the corporation. But the nice part, we’ve always fought Rule 52, Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, we are not a corporation. Well, in fact, we are; we have a corporation, we have the strawman and the key is learning how to use it. So, consequently, if we have a strawman, the corporation, it’s one corporation suing another corporation and they cannot do that in anywhere in any court except for the United States District Court in Washington, D.C., that’s the venue. It must occur there and only there.

[Moishe] Unless you waive that right and if you show up to court in the local county court and you haven’t brought it up and you start pleading and arguing well you can’t claim Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act because, well, by the preponderance of evidence and the fact that you are there, your behavior has waived this immunity and/or…

[Jay] That’s the corporate immunity.

[John] Jay?

[Jay] Yes.

[John] Jay, on a regular basis corporations sue each other daily. Is that because of the lawyers bringing the case in a different place?

[Jay] Look, the problem that we have with a language that’s being used is because it’s constantly being modified by the BAR Association in order to fit the situation at hand.

[Moishe] And I have a doozie for that, Jay.

[Jay] You have a what?

[Moishe] I have a remedy for that. Now, if you claim to be a foreign state one of the requirements for service of process on a foreign state is for it to be in the language of the foreign state.

[Jay] You think they could serve me in Aramaic?

[Moishe] Well, if they’re serving you in legalese that’s not your language.

[Jay] No, it’s not unless you say, are you so and so, ‘yes I am’ or the word, here, consequently that is the foreign language and you just answered in the same one. It’s called terms. That’s a foreign language.

[Moishe] Right—yes.

[Jay] Ok.

[Moishe] They have written the remedy right there in front of us but we are trying to speak their language and we’re foreign to it.

[John] Moishe?

[Moishe] Yes.

[John] If you’re considered a corporation do you have to be represented by an attorney?

[Jay] No. The first step is they must prove that you’re that corporation. The burden of proof lies with the proponent of the rule so consequently when they come against you as a corporation you have nothing to do other than say, ‘OK, prove it.’ They have to prove you have a charter. They have to prove that you have a license to do business. They have to prove that you’re, in fact, doing business as a corporation. That’s your ticket out. They must prove all their allegations.

[John] That goes back to square one; that was what you were looking at originally, wasn’t it, Jay, or early on?

[Jay] Six years ago I told you I didn’t have the facts but I knew it was all fraud—I knew it. Now, we have the documentation. It is fraud from the get-go. It is purely an offer, a fraudulent offer with the intention to deceive you into signing a contract where they are the recipients of money, rights, property and you are the benefactor—you’re taking care of it for them and you’ll continue to do so. You’re the trustee and they’re the beneficiaries and that’s not the way it works, not by a long shot.

[Moishe] And here’s another remedy called the International Organizational Immunities Act.

[Jay] Yes.

[Moishe] And this was passed by an act on December 29^th of 1945. It’s also a public law and it gives all the immunities of a public international organization that a foreign state has. And an international organization is the United Nations.

[Jay] That’s right.

[Moishe] There is a whole laundry list of international organizations; they’re one of them and, of course, the United States is a member of this international organization.

[Jay] Go back to December, 26^th, 1933, Pan American Treaty.

[Moishe] Yes, additionally.

[Jay] Yeah. The United States in that particular treaty, December 26^th, 1933 gave up the statutes of this land and adopted international law. So that means whatever statute you read in the Code book, it has no bearing except to deceive you because you’re under international law.

[Moishe] But you can waive that right. You can waive that right.

[Jay] Well, international law doesn’t pertain to you. However, it pertains to what used to be the United States. Well, my main goal is to prove that there are no public officials and I’m going to do that by… They hold an election and you vote for an individual and he’s elected and upon election before he seats himself in the office he must swear an oath. So he swears his oath; it’s supposed to be a Constitutional oath but as we all know it’s just a piece of paper so consequently he swears a corporate oath but it doesn’t make any difference what he swears. 8 USC 1481 says, upon taking the oath they give up their citizenship; they are no longer Americans. So you’re being prosecuted, you’re being hounded, whatever they’re doing to you is by foreign agents because they’re no longer Americans. Now, in December the 9^th, 1945 the International Organization Immunity Act came in where all public offices, all of them from the city sanitariums all the way up to the president of the United States, have become members of the U.N. Now, we don’t elect anybody in the U.N., we have no voice in the U.N., we have no way of doing anything with the U.N.—it’s foreign to us. So, consequently, everything that’s done is merely done as a show. The statutes that you’re prosecuted under there’s no statute for an alleged crime in international law committed in the city that you’re in or the state and there’s the different jurisdictions are denoted by their EIN number. You get stopped by a highway patrolman, his division has an EIN number and it’s located in the state capital where either he or his employer took the oath and that’s their jurisdiction and that’s their venue, only. When they come out on the highway other than the specific area, campus, that they have jurisdiction then there’s a crossing of jurisdictions. The DPS in Texas is called the Department of Public Safety. They come on the highway and give you a ticket and then they take it to the local traffic court, either municipal or county court at law, different EINs. They don’t have any jurisdiction to be conferring with the other. If you commit a crime that the DPS can bother you with then it has to be on their campus in the capitol where the oath was taken. Consequently, the county courts, only in that building, in that courtroom is where they have jurisdiction. But how you got from being on the street to that court, that’s grey area. It’s not a grey area, it doesn’t exist except if you accept it and you’re deemed to have accepted it due to your lack of information, lack of knowledge or better said, ignorance. The whole thing is fit together very loosely but if you’ll agree to it they’ll accept your agreement and they’ll collect the money from you, they’ll bill you and they’ll bond you and they’ll do…. But that’s what corporations do.

[John] Now, the question comes up, Jay, because what you’re saying could go back to the argument, for example, that wages are not income.

[Jay] It does go back there. …goesprecisely there because if you’ll stop and think…

[John] I understand but how does it do you apply this so that it has force?

[Jay] Well, it’s very simple. What I’m saying to you is there are no public officers. A public officer between the time they’re elected and the time they take their oath. As soon as they take their oath they’re foreign agents of a—they could be Russian, they could be Ecuadorian, they could be anything and you cannot be tried in your bailiwick in your venue, your neighborhood by a judge from Ecuador or Russia or Turkey.

[John] You mean like the security agents at the airport?

[Jay] Exactly. And all those rules and laws are bogus because going back to the International Organizational Immunities Act that’s basically a treaty signed by Congress but here’s the kicker…

[John] Jay, hold the kicker and I hope you’re still there. We got a short break, about a minute and a half; we’ll be back.

[Jay] Let me know when this is over.

[John] This is Liberty Forum, John Bryant with Moishe Pippik and Jay from Texas.

[Jay] I’m from Ohio, right now.

[John] He’s from everywhere.

[Jay] Yeah, I’m from everywhere. Anyway, kicker. Here’s the kicker, you can thank Joseph Rorie. He told you on several of the shows, these enactments by Congress are totally unlawful. They’re not ratified by the 5^th Article of the Constitution, at all. They pass a law, it has to be read three times on three separate occasions in the House of Representatives and three times on three separate occasions in the Senate. If it passes with two-thirds majority of both houses then it’s taken before the states for a three-quarter majority. It has to be three-fourths of the states. But according to the Jefferson manual that does not mean the representative of the state, it means the actual people vote on the law and if they agree then it can be ratified. And that’s the only time it can be ratified. So, consequently, everything that passed since the Civil War hasn’t been done that way including the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, the Home-grown Terrorist Act, everything. They’re just merely documents.

[John] The Federal Reserve Act?

[Jay] Again, did any of your people vote on it? Did it pass by three-quarters vote of the states, the people of the states? The Jefferson Manual tells Congress exactly how they’re supposed to do their business{they do it from the double-decker outhouse (people on the bottom, politicians on the top deck)} and they don’t do it. They haven’t done it so consequently every law passed, alleged law that was passed since the Civil War, has no force and effect in law. They just use force of arms.

[John] Ok, Jay, say this is all absolutely true and none of you believe it till you do your own homework. How do you use this to protect yourself?

[Jay] Well, first of all, you have to understand there are no public officers so you cannot sue the public officer. You cannot sue a judge. A judge in the public office is perfect. The government in the public offices is perfect. However, we go, now, to the clowns holding the office. All of these clowns are corporations registered on Dunn & Bradstreet trading on the stock market, every single one of them. Now, you have an out. You can sue a corporation for malfeasance, misfeasance, anything so you begin to sue them but then again you have the same people that are doing the same things and they’re going to overrule you. So, what you want to do is you want to default them, give them an opportunity to correct something or do something they won’t do. You give them a letter of grace and then you submit your default but you do not submit it to a court. You don’t submit the default and a summary judgment to a court at law. I’ve recently come across information that the seal of three notaries constitute a tribunal and that tribunal cannot be overturned not even by the Supreme Court.{You just got the key to the upper deck of the outhouse}

[John] Oh, that is powerful.

[Jay] That information just came to me in the last couple of days but I haven’t had a chance to do due diligence but it sounds extremely powerful and it goes back to what Menard was saying on your show and on his tapes. You need a sheriff, get a notary; you need a judge, get a notary. You need a notary, get a notary. And there’s a lot of power in that and it’s all common law and that’s the law we’re under. It’s not the law the corporation is under but the living man is under common law. It’s guaranteed to him in the republican form of government—that’s all there is to it. Now, if what I was told the other day after I find out for sure, that means if you were put away for twenty years without committing a crime you can default everybody that was involved for very large money. You can get a default judgment by taking it, holding three notaries, having their seals attached. You can get their summary judgment from the same three notaries with their three seals attached and you have a bona fide judgment which means you now can issue commercial liens. Now, you can’t do a commercial lien on a public official but, thank goodness for us, there are no public officials since they swore their oath and 8 USC 1481. So now the worm has turned—yes.

[John] Are the notaries public officials? Do they swear oaths?

[Jay] Oh, absolutely. But they have their roots in the common law of England. So does your Secretary of State, your Secretary of State who is supposed to register corporations and all these courts and offices are run through the state but if you go check on them there is absolutely no registration of any corporation, not even the BAR Association in your state, a corporation unregistered. Now, if it’s a corporation acting as a corporation and it’s not registered it has no capacity and standing to do anything. So the corporate offices have no capacity and standing to act as government but the Secretary of State’s office has its feet in two different jurisdictions, the common law and the alleged statutory law. Well, we know there’s no statutory laws anymore. So, consequently, you’re relying on the common law side of the office to attach whatever it is you want to attach.

[John] Jay, what about the notion of absolving these corporations? They exist only on paper; they were created on paper and they can be extinguished that way, too.

[Jay] Oh, thank you for bringing that up, John. Here’s the deal. Once you have your commercial lien established and they will not pay you—right? Then what you do is you do a CPA investigation of interlocking equities to see which one of these different corporate bodies has connections up at the top. Let’s say one officer is on several board of directors of these different municipal corporations. Well, that’s an interlocking equity. But they haven’t paid you; since they haven’t paid their bill you take them into bankruptcy court. Now, you’re going back into their bailiwick and you’re putting them in involuntary bankruptcy which is basically a quo warranto in common law and you get all the stuff and you get to divide it up amongst the people. But what’s included in that is the CAFR fund; that goes back to the people after they’re bankrupt.

[John] So, you’re saying that you should be able to collect because there are resources that can be attached.

[Jay] Well, you’re going to collect—you may collect money. You’re definitely going to collect because they’re out of business. When it’s involuntary bankruptcy they’re gone. Once you put them in bankruptcy the registered agents for all these corporate or non-corporate corporate entities is the Secretary of State of the great state of Delaware. And you submit all the documents to him and demand that he pulls their charter. Now, they can’t do anything anymore ever again.

[John] It all goes back to Delaware; you said that before.

[Jay] Yeah, it goes back to Delaware and that’s where the definition of corporation—now, it took me quite a while to think about this but when anybody says, corporation, you’re thinking of ATT&T, General Motors, IBM, and all the big glass, concrete and steel buildings. But go to the word, corporation, it’s a derivative of corpus which is body. What they’re doing is embodying a fiction to look just exactly like you. That is the corporation. They’re incorporating a fiction with you, with all your attributes except the soul.

[John] Jay, this is a little bit off but a corporation’s charters used to be very specific. I guess they’re broad enough, now, that they can do just about anything. I happened to see the movie,The Corporation, here recently and they landed on Monsanto the way we used to. I mean, the corporation of death; it would seem as though there should be a way to pull their charter but maybe that’s not the way to do it, maybe this bankruptcy, involuntary bankruptcy, which Rice used to talk about early on…

[Jay] Well, I didn’t read that part; I wish I would have because… style="mso-spacerun: yes" See, my life was real good until what happened to me happened to me and since then it’s been a flurry of events and studying and I’m not happy with what happened to me and I’m sure that at least two people out in the audience are real unhappy with what’s happened to them. Consequently, we’re all looking to find out just how in the world they can pull this off and all I want to do is pull the curtain back so you can see that little bitty white haired skinny frail old man standing behind the curtain—that’s what I want and that’s what I’m after.

[John] Now, there’s a process of billing them which goes back to Kevin Haddock of NI Revolution yahoo groups who I’d hoped we’d have on but it would have been too full, probably. Anyway, so where does that fit, billing them, Jay?

[Jay] Well, you performed a service for them, didn’t you? Any time a corporation does anything. Here’s the deal, you go to McDonalds, everybody’s familiar with McDonalds whether you eat there or not. You stand up at the counter and you order a hamburger—right? Ok, as soon as you’re done ordering, what’s the next step?

[Moishe] Pay.

[John] Pay.

[Jay] You pay for your order. Ok, if you don’t pay for the order what is it that you don’t get? The hamburger. If the corporations order you, that the judge issues an order in a court case…

[Moishe] The judge never issues an order until it comes from the moving party to order.

[Jay] What did he say?

[John] Yeah, don’t talk so loud.

[Moishe] The judge issues the order but the order is made by the moving party.

[Jay] Well, nonetheless, once the order is placed the bill is due. The bill is the invoice. All you do is decide all the things that are a part of your invoice and bill them for it like let’s say you spend almost a year in jail. Well, there’s a court case that says, every day that you’re in jail you get one million, five hundred, sixty-five thousand two hundred and seventeen dollars and thirty-three cents, that’s what it comes out to. The court case is Trezvant v. the City of Tampa. He got $25,000 for twenty-three minutes locked up so if you’ll extrapolate that to twenty-four hours you come out to a million and a half dollars plus a day. Well, if they don’t pay it they’re in default, aren’t they? The courts have already ruled that’s the fee. So you do that. Now, if they want you to stand in a corporate venue as opposed to your common law venue, well, how much is it worth to you? If they want your private property and the last time I was on I said, you need to know private property. Your private property is your body, your thoughts, your time, your life, your rights, anything. You can bill them anything you want. The case supporting that is Monongahela River Corporation v. U.S. so if they want it they got to pay for it and the price is whatever you deem. So you just figure how much, if they want you to be a corporate entity so they can do all these things to you then you submit a bill; I think $500,000,000,000 is equitable for each instance, not just one time fits all. Every time they do it to you, like in my case, it would have been three times so consequently, $500,000,000 times 3; that’s equitable to me and I don’t really care what they think. They placed the orders, I suffered for it. Now, I submit the bill; I go back and prove the fraud with all their codes and regulations and everything at the beginning, submit my bill under fraud and then list all the crimes committed under that fraud and demand payment. They default. I give them a grace period; they default a second time. Now, I go to my notaries, all three of them, for my summary judgment. I have a judgment. Now all I have to do is attach a lien to all their properties. That means city hall, county jails, the tennis courts, the swimming pool, everything that they claim is part of the corporate limits, that’s mine, now.

[John] Do you get the sheriff to exercise that?

[Jay] What was that, John?

[John] How does that happen, then? I mean, the sheriff isn’t going to help you.

[Jay] A notary a judicial officer, how dare the sheriff go against the judgment of a judicial officer? That’s an act of war. That changes the complexion of everything. And if they won’t obey their own rules and the public knows it, well, they’ve been tried in the court of public opinion. So what if they don’t pay me, nobody else is going to go for it any more, either, so they lose. It’s a lose-lose situation for them; it’s a maybe win; it’s a win-win for me and the money’s irrelevant. The fact is I got even with them, they’re done, they’re done for. The monetary compensation, oh yeah, I’d like to have it. They don’t have enough money to pay me. And everybody else feels exactly the same way. But the mere fact that they’re exposed and when they make a proclamation instead of everybody being fearful everybody starts laughing. Well, when the emperor has no clothes and the little kid says, ‘look, he’s naked,’ that’s over for them.

[Moishe] And you already see that happening throughout the world, both within and without the United States—the perception, the emperor has no clothes.

[Jay] The emperor has no clothes. And Bush’s signing statements, you can take everything that the executive branch, the executive, that means they execute what the legislative branch is supposed to do but only if you have real government, only if you have real government. If the U.N. does it or the corporation does it you’re immune, you’re either immune under common law or you’re immune under Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act as a corporation.

[Moise] Let me just read to you guys, real quick, once again the eleventh amendment:

The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.

Well, all we have, now, masquerading as public officials are subjects of a foreign state, that foreign state being whatever corporation or quasi-corporation that’s running around with the emperor’s clothing. They’re foreign to us. That’s why they claim immunity any time you try to go against them and they are immune.

[Jay] They are immune but so are you.

[Moishe] Exactly—yes.

[John] But their goons don’t think that. Who’s going to take orders from them?

[Jay] Yes, they do. Look, here’s the funny thing, if you go after a judge or if you go after the muckity-mucks in the corporation let me tell you something about the goons. The goons are more scared of you than they are of the judge and they’re frightened to death of the judge or the higher echelon of their corporation. I mean, they tremble at the thought of confronting them but they’re more afraid of you if you will go after them and that’s a fact. I know that from personal experience and I can probably get an amen from Moishe.

[Moishe] Amen.

[Jay] What we’ve been conditioned into believing is hard to overcome. In fact, it’s virtually impossible for most people to overcome. But it’s still fiction. It only manifests itself if you believe it. If you believe it then it’s so. The goons will come after you and if you stand right there and look at the goon right in the eye and say, ‘you’re next, as soon as I finish with these boys I’m coming after you,’ the only thing they want to do is flee—there’s no fight there. It’s just flee. They don’t mess with you; they don’t do their drive-bys. I haven’t seen a cop in years, now.

[John] And they used to drive by, initially?

[Jay] Six to eight times a day, two or three miles an hour, right in front of the house to scare me. Well, I’m not smart enough to be scared.

[John] You are smart enough to know what you’re doing, here, to a large degree and that’s what it takes and so you got to get into the…

[Jay] You don’t have to be smart, John, you just have to realize where the pieces are buried, go get them, put them together and you don’t have to be a legal genius. You just have to put all the pieces together, it’s like a puzzle.

[John] That means you’ve got to do the reading and look at it in a different light. That’s what you have done, you stepped outside the box, as they say, and you’ve read these things and looked at the concepts rather than being trapped in their language.

[Jay] That’s not my language.

[John] No, it’s not.

[Jay] That’s their language and if I’m fighting them with their language it’s like a one-legged man in a three-legged race, you’re going to end up on your duff. You don’t go with their language.

[John] The only thing that I can see. You’ve beaten them six ways from Sunday, you’ve beaten them with their own rules and you guys have both taken it into their tribunals and shoved it in their face one way or another and in a polite way and they ignore you. They just keep ignoring…

[Moishe] Oh, no, no, no, no, John that’s where you’re wrong. They’re not ignoring us.

[Jay] No, they’re not.

[Moishe] They take our behavior and that can be deemed a waiver or what have you. We haven’t been waving any white flags but they are not ignoring what we’re doing—trust me.

[Jay] They have meetings on a regular basis, the judicial council in Texas. Every time we come up with a new twist they burn the midnight oil and they try to figure a way that we will accept and go on and we don’t accept it and we’re right back. So they have to give the appearance that they’re winning which is ok, they can appear any way they want to. But the fact is we’re causing them a lot of sleepless nights and they are looking over their shoulders because if we’ve gone this far it’s just a matter of time before we get all the rest of the stuff like the three notaries as a tribunal. It’s just a matter of time before they’re doing some hard time.

[Moishe] And I think what the establishment, our adversaries, have come to the position of is every action that they have towards us is no longer to make us submit but it’s a form of fuel that just makes us even more strong. It’s just an encouragement as opposed to a detractment.

[Jay] Yep. It’s a matter of attitude, John, it’s a matter of attitude. Everybody can muster an attitude, everybody.

[John] Just like an opinion, eh? Ok, well that’s good.

[Jay] You don’t want me to make that comment on the air, do you?

[John] No, no thank you, Jay. Remember—never mind.

[Jay] It’s a family show, huh?

[John] Yeah, it is.

[Jay] Ok. If everybody can just take and set aside the fear that they have been drilled, the fear that’s been drilled into them and just take it for just a moment and set it aside and look clearly at the situation they can see where all this fits, then they’re free to…back in its place if they need it. But I think if they’ll just take that few seconds it takes to set the fear aside and look at what they’re doing clearly they’ll be enough anger there which can be used as a motivating force to go after them and the more of us that go after them. Well, it’s like the siege of Rome. Rome had everything for a long time and then they were surrounded by barbarians and vandals and Goths and Visigoths and Tartars and all these different tribes and eventually they ran out of food, they ran out of money, they ran out of army and they fell. Well, here we are again.

[John] didn’t go away.

[Jay] That’s not, that’s this is the last Babylonian Empire.

[John] Ok, I’ll accept that—the last?

[Jay] The very last.

[John] Well, it’s been there for a purpose it seems like.

[Jay] Of course. Ye shall have no other gods before Me. That means Federal Reserve notes also. It’s a very plain statement and it’s not a suggestion, it’s a command. Ok, and in English it’s ye shall have no other gods before Me. That means no Christmas trees, that means no silver ornaments. Nothing has value except the Creator—nothing—and you can’t worship any of it. And I do my best not to worship the judge, the prosecutor, the police man; they demand blind obedience similar to a false god. Well, I can’t do that. If the punishment’s death so be it. If I do it the punishment’s death. So if I’m going to die at least I’m on the right side.

[John] Thank you, Jay, that’s the bottom line and I hope that’s a message. …two things and let’s see if you agree with the other one. One, you got to do what your Creator would have you do and so what you laid out there is really part of that. The other thing is I don’t think we would have a reason for all this governance if people followed the Golden Rule, just treated others as they wanted to be treated. And you do that even if they’re an enemy and you’re an example of that, Jay.

[Jay] Well, I’m not a real good example for anybody to be following. I’m not even a good American. I’m a foreigner. But these specific individuals that claim to be citizens have done my family an injustice. They really made me angry but they did my family an injustice and that needs to be corrected; whatever it takes to correct it I’m willing to do it.

[John] Well, we’ll back, one more segment, here, on Liberty Forum, with Jay and Moishe if Jay can stay with us.

[Jay] Yeah, I’m here.

[John] Ok.

{break}

[John] Well, here we are in the last segment of the last regular show for a while for sure with John Bryant as the host and I’ve got to really commend Jay for the work that he has done. I mean, he has really helped with this show. He’s been our de facto director at times and anyway on top of all the work that he’s done. I’m having a tough time with this, Jay, because I’m going to miss it in a lot of ways but I haven’t been able to do it justice and I want to pursue some of the things that you guys are doing—I want to understand it.

[Jay] Did you read my e-mail?

[John] Yes, I’ve got it, right in front of my face.

[Jay] Ok, well, did you read the little note that I wrote you on there?

[John] Well, I thought the whole thing was a note other than the cites.

[Jay] Well, that part was just backing up what my position is but I asked you if you were ready to go do something in.

[John] Oh, thank you; I didn’t have that in front of me.

[Moishe] What did you get, John? Did that have anything to do with the information that we’ve been utilizing recently?

[Jay] Yes.

[Moishe] Ok. I just wanted to throw in that I spent about two days in a federal repository library making sure that all of that information was accurate and it is.

[John] That’s what needs to be done.

[Jay] Look, I’m going to tell you something. Moishe, over there, he’s young, he’s exuberant, but he’s been able to learn age and treachery. So you have a young man who thinks just like a treacherous old man but has the youth and exuberance of pursuing until they give up. The fellow on the other end of this phone call is one dangerous, dangerous dude, not to us, but to them, and I want to publicly announce that. I want everybody to know. I call him a kid because I think of him—if I had a son like him I’d be very proud. In fact, I consider him a son. So, consequently, I know that they have their hands full with his abilities and his knowledge and that’s what we need. We need more people like Moishe that can absorb this, don’t mind doing a little work, read it, think about it, discuss it and then go hammer them.

[John] Thank you, Jay, for saying that.

[Jay] You’re quite welcome; it’s my true feelings and I want everybody, all three people listening to know that.

[John] That’s the way it feels, doesn’t it, sometimes.

[Jay] Yeah, sometimes, yeah.

[John] But that’s ok. It’s amazing that it’s not quite true, normally, unless we’ve upset enough people. But I’m not quite ready yet, but that’s what I want to be ready for doing, that’s for sure.

[Jay] I have your phone number and I’m going to be, I believe the term is, harassing you until you’ve got it down to a science where you can do it. I think the way you could do it that will free the rest of your life to enjoy any way you want.

[John] Yeah, I hope so. Hey, Joe is calling in. I don’t know how Nicholas is doing this but we got a caller—Joe, special caller; Joe, come on in however you can do it.

[Jay] Is this Joe from Pennsylvania?

[John] Yeah, and you know what, he may be calling in on the line that didn’t work for you.

[Jay] Well, that might be.

[John] Because Jay is on the normal call-in line and, Joe, we can’t hear you—doggone it. Joe is one of the guys that’s been there for a long time and he’s kind of like me, little tentative, let’s put it that way, but has had his hands full for twenty years with a city that he’s living in—unbelievable—unbelievable that he’s kept them, very slowly and carefully he’s kept them at bay and maybe he has a story for us.

[Moishe] Let me throw something in here. I had called a day earlier, today,because a light bulb went on in my head about jurisdiction and this afternoon another light bulb went on. The major tool that is used by the courts, today, against us is waiver. And I had never looked up waiver in Blacks Law, ever. And I’d been doing research for four, five years now. Maybe it hasn’t been that long but sometimes it feels like it. But waiver has some really interesting definitions in there and I encourage all to learn exactly what waiver is because that is the court’s and any other person acting as a public official, that is what they rely on, waiver.

[Joe] John, can you hear me, John? Joe’s on.

[John] Whoops.

[Jay] I can hear you, Joe. He’s gone now.

[John] Not really.

[Jay] He was there for a minute.

[John] If you can hear him, Jay, you can relay it to us.

[Jay] Well, I heard him and now I can just hear some scratching in the background.

[Joe] Jay, can you hear me.

[Moishe] Yes, I can hear you.

[Jay] Yes, I can hear you.

[Joe] Ok, I just wanted to say to John if he can hear me, that I will miss him and I hope he does well in future endeavors and it was grand to hear the three of you talking, tonight, at John’s last show.

[Jay] Thank you.

[Joe] And I want John to give me a call later when he gets a chance and I also want to get in touch with you, Jay and Moishe again if I can.

[John] Ok.

[Moishe] I think we lost him again.

[Jay] Did you hear that, John?

[John] Actually I did. Thank you, Joe. And we have yet to meet. Over time, I want to meet as many people as we can. Jay and I have met. I have not met Moishe. Hello, hello, you’re on.

[Joe] I still hear you, John.

[John] Ok, anyway that’s good, Joe; we’ll talk and thank you for your sentiments there, appreciate it.

[Joe] Ok, and again I want to talk to all three of you again…

[Jay] Can you hear me?

[John] This is a little too much for our board.

[Jay] Yeah, I think so. Well, anyway, when Joe contacts you give him my phone number.

[John] Ok, and we lost Moishe…

[Moishe] No, I’m back.

[John] Ok, good, alright. We’ll do that and that brings up another question.

[Jay] Thank you, Joe, for your vote of confidence. Now, your turn, John, it’s your show.

[John] I love it, Jay, thank you. Hey, where you guys going to be as far as—do you have any idea, I mean, Jay you like Mike Beider’s show. I don’t know what’s happening now with Randall Kelton, his network went away. Did you survive?

[Moishe] I did.

[John] Ok, good. Do you have any idea; obviously, you’re communicating with Randy Kelton.

[Jay] I had interfaced with him last week when I was home. What was your question about where we’re going to be?

[John] Should people kind of watch where Randy Kelton is, Mike Beider or what?

[Jay] There’s good information on both shows. I don’t have any intention of being there. In fact, well, it depends. I’m going to begin to take care of –I’m working with Moishe on his case. I’m going to start taking care of my case. When it comes to. In fact, hopefully, this is my last public appearance.

[John] I hope that’s not the case.

[Jay] I want it to be because I really had a real quiet life up until just a few years ago and I’d like to get back to it after I solve a few problems but if the need arises I’m not opposed to converting this truck into a motor home and going and being in areas that I…a lot of problems are and trying to help them, just camp out there and help them.

[John] That would be kind of a cross between Johnny Appleseed and Marshal Dillon.

[Jay] Johnny Appleseed—yeah—but I want to sow the seeds of destruction of an evil entity.

[John] Jay, we need to know how some of this works out and definitely we need to keep in communication and apply some of this stuff.

[Jay] If you learn how to do it then you don’t need me anymore. I’m free to be quiet. If you know how to do it look at all the people you know and that you could help.

[John] Well, we’ll see where it goes, it’s a big question mark, right now.

[Jay] Well, Moishe knows all this stuff, too. Moishe’s, well he’s got a family and he’s got all this stuff but, well, you just know.

[John] Moishe, are you there? Sounds like he had an issue, temporarily. Oh, here he comes. Going back to this latest chapter in the understanding it all relies on somebody at some point recognizing their codes, rules and regulations whether it’s a treaty or the law, I’m not sure…

[Jay] Yeah, but what you need to do is go to the Administrative Procedures Act of 1946 when they took all the different…forms, admiralty, maritime, equity, everything, and lumped them all together and became the BAR Association…all under administrative procedure so consequently it would be easier to pull off these shenanigans but if you look at the Administrative Procedures Act it refers back to Title 5, 551, I’m not sure which subsection, I think it’s B but under definitions it tells you exactly who all this stuff applies to and you’re not mentioned there, none of us are mentioned there so consequently… Go ahead.

[John] I just said that even though the Title doesn’t apply to them anymore, either, but it would be interesting to…

[Jay] That’s the shield that they hide behind. It has to have the appearance of truth and honor and it….

[John] Jay?

[Jay] Who?

[John] Joseph Rorie.

[Jay] Ah, Article Five.

{gap in communications}

[Jay] …role and exchanging ideas and letting her rip.

[Joseph Rorie]  Hey, Moishe.

[Jay] Moishe, I think he fell off.

[Joseph Rorie] Oh, he did. …contact me; I’ve got some questions for him and he could probably help me get through a few things.

[John] I was hoping—did you ever communicate with him.

[Joseph Rorie] Well, I left a message and I’m not sure I had the right number. His recorder, the recorder I was getting didn’t have a voice and it was some kind of an electronic deal; I didn’t know if I had the number or not.

[Jay] You didn’t get the right number, then.

[Joseph Rorie] But I’ll need to talk to him so…

[Jay] Do you want me to give you his number.

[John] Joseph, I’ll get it. I mean, it was approved. Moishe approved it but didn’t quite get it accomplished. To keep track of Joseph Rorie, his website: www.republicvsdemocracy.org, Joseph Rorie’s website and he’s got so much material available so reasonably and hopefully, he’ll do the Jefferson Manual, as well, at some point.

[Joseph Rorie] Yeah, I might take that advice; it sounds good. I need to ask Jay more about it and…keep something going here. How are we going to keep in contact with Jay and Moishe and everybody if you’re going to be gone, John?

[Jay] Well, you have my number.

[Joseph Rorie] Jay, if you can give me a call I’ll put you in my Rolodex. My problem is I’m a scatter brain person and if I just write it on a piece of paper then it gets...

[Jay] Well, if you have me in your rolodex you’ll probably be subject to all kinds of bad things.

[Joseph Rorie] If you give me your number, I’ll get to put it to where I need it I’ll be able to find it…store or something then I get home, where’s that number he gave me?

[John] Joseph, this is one of the things I hope to be able to continue doing is making sure people are connected. But Joseph’s website, www.republicvsdemocracy.org and I’ll get you in contact with those guys. We got to make sure that we got a nucleus of things. Randall Kelton has expressed a definite interest in keeping people speaking to each other.

[Jay] Well, I talked to Randy last week. Kathy and I went up to Austin and met with Randy and I gave him some of this stuff and he just had a blank look on his face because he’d never heard such things and I said, ‘well, it doesn’t mean it’s not true, it merely means you haven’t heard of it before.’ And I have more documentation. In fact, we have a whole lot of documentation, now, so consequently… Joseph, what you said about how to ratify a law and a Constitutional amendment, Article 5, that is so basic and now we’re seeing where all the laws written in this country were not done pursuant to Article 5 so they’re null and void, already. Now, we have the ability to enforce that.

[Joseph Rorie] Well, I got one good victory to tell everybody, usually you always have you always have to…for it. For…some years, almost thirty now that I’ve helped people in court for the first time ever I actually got a jury to return a guilty verdict two weeks ago. That’s been a rough road but I’m really proud of that. It’s a tough road to get a jury to speak for you.

[Jay] The reason for that is they’ve been indoctrinated with the same crap that we’ve believed all this time. The deal is we now have the ability or we’re about to have the ability to circumvent all of that and go for the gusto and put the offenders or perpetrators out of business and that’s what we need to be looking at now. And then it goes back, real government with real public officials and public officers because when the corporation falls all that’s left, when the de facto falls all that’s left is the de jure because it never went away; it’s just unpopulated.

[Joseph Rorie] Well, listen, when this show’s still on let’s try to find a way to stay on the and all three of us or four of us or five of us have these people to get together and let’s…keep the radio going. I think Melody would be glad to help.

[John] Liberty Forum will be at this time according to Nicholas and I will get him in contact with you, as well.

[Joseph Rorie] Let’s try and keep something going there and keep everybody exposed. I really think, John, that you had more of an audience than some of these others on there. I don’t know that for a fact, I just sort of…

[John] Nobody seems to and I didn’t really care; I was just…

[Jay] I think we ought to stop thinking about theory anymore and start looking at practical applications.

[John] I agree.

[Joseph Rorie] Let’s not lose each other. I listen to your shows every week just about; I miss a few but I listen.

[Jay] Well, I listen too; I try not to talk much because I –well, I interrupt a lot…

[John] Thank you and we’ll make sure you are in contact with Moishe and Jay.

[Joseph Rorie] Ok, I appreciate it and I’ll get off and give somebody else a…

[John] Check with Moishe, here, if he’s back because we’re down to the wire.

[Joseph Rorie]  Well, I’m going to get off; maybe he can get back and you tell him—alright.

[John] Ok.

[Jay] Thank you, Joseph, good talking to you.

[John] Thank you for everything, Joseph. There’s one guy that has done an enormous amount of research—holy mackerel!

[Jay] Yeah, and it’s time is coming back.

[John] Oh, I was hoping Moishe would be back. He got us started on the right foot here. Well, it sounds like we may have lost Moishe—I hope not—chime in, Moishe if you’re there.

[Jay] Well, you still got me; you’re stuck with me so…

[John] Maybe this is the way it’s supposed to be.

[Jay] You never know.

[John] Anyway, Moishe is an exceptional contributor here; thank you.

[Jay] Yes, he is.

[John] And thank you, everybody—my gosh, this will continue in some form as Liberty Forum at First Amendment Radio and when something comes up I’m sure that Nicholas will allow us the space to get it out if he doesn’t do it himself. Another thing that might be done is getting a commitment from Nicholas for a new board with some contributions. Anyway, ok, Jay, and thank you, everyone, we’re basically out of time and it’s been…

[Jay] Interesting?

[John] Interesting to say the least. Who could have guessed and I must say my life has been an example of following what your heart and mind say that need to be done at least at some level because you couldn’t have scripted it otherwise. And I can’t explain why I’m still alive money-wise. So, it pays off. Thank you, Jay.

[Jay] Good night, John.

[John] Good night, good night everyone. Thank you.