Intervention - Challenge the Law by Demanding Certification
28 May 2008

According to Legal Researcher Joyce Rosenwald, "Every state probably has somewhere in its codes the process to have state law certified as constitutional." See references below for Federal, Florida, and California laws on the subject of Intervention and such challenges. You can find cases of this kind here and here.

Joyce wrote this to me:

There is a mechanism in the law that allows you to make a constitutional challenge through the back door when involved in the courts. I don't believe you can ever successfully argue in the administrative process. The bastards made a very big mistake when they allowed, even encouraged us to believe that the constitution is alive and well. The attorney general of every state can be subpoened into a courtroom to testify to the constitutionality of the act you are charged with violating. Every codified law must also be certified as constitutional by the supreme court of the state before it can be implemented. Using this info I have successfully won every issue I have ever had in the courts. My case was always dismissed rather than have the fraud exposed.  Of course, I also have a few more tricks up my sleeve that I never discuss. A legal researcher becomes a constitutional scholar in spite of themselves. If you want to have a constitutional system you have to function as if you do...

Joyce also said this by way of explanation:

I've spent the last 20 years connecting the dots. I now believe I have discovered how to get REMEDY

OK...let's start here:

'But there is another description of government, called also by publicists a government de facto, but which might, perhaps, be more aptly denominated a government of paramount force. Its distinguishing characteristics are (1) that its existence is maintained by active military power within the territories, and against the rightful authority of an established and lawful government; and (2) that while it exists it must necessarily be [229 U.S. 416, 429] obeyed in civil matters by private citizens who, by acts of obedience rendered in submission to such force, do not become responsible, as wrongdoers, for those acts, though not warranted by the laws of the rightful government. Actual governments of this sort are established over districts differing greatly in extent and conditions. They are usually administered directly by military authority, but they may be administered, also, by civil authority, supported more or less directly by military force.' Thornington v. Smith, 8 Wall. 1, 9, 19 L. ed. 361, 363.

I spent all day yesterday researching the above case. I have come to the conclusion that we are indeed under the jurisdiction of a military authority, administered by civil authority, and the courts run america. It goes all the way back to before the Revolution. International treaties, codified into law, are superior to domestic law, ( as stated by the Supreme Court ) starting at the time of the Revolution. (No transfer of american soil from the Crown ) The colonies were British (Crown) corporations. Washington D.C. became the Mother Corp. and the colonies became her Inc's.

Peace was never declared after the civil war, and we are still functioning under the war powers. This explains why we don't win in the courts. The national Constitution has been suspended. The states, as Incs , also had their Constitutions suspended. We lost our law, which is supposed to be certified as constitutional before it can be implemented. NO REMEDY. This explains the Rule of Necessity. You cannot claim to be a citizen of a State or the U.S. because neither exist as de jure governments, they are governments de facto.

However, since our de facto governments won't tell us this, and we are still functioning under the belief that the constitutions are de jure, I still think we can challenge under the "absence of law is the remedy" theory. Just exactly what is this theory? As I said before, all law has to be certified as constitutional by the state supreme court before it can be implemented. When charged with violating a law, one should subpoena the certification of the act by the state supreme court. One should also subpoena the Attorney General of the state to testify to the constitutionality of the act. Because the law will not be certified as constitutional, and the state Attorney will not testify to the constitutionality of the act, nothing remains but for the court to dismiss your case. I've used this technique is a firearms violation case in which the defendant, if found guilty, would have been given 40 years in jail. Instead, on the day of his trial, he was called to the bench and told his case has been dismissed.

I believe that all judges, once they reach the appellate level are aware of the above facts. The more arrogant the judge, the more he knows about the government being de facto. The law schools are private, so the lawyers are educated to work for the de facto system, by making sure that the will of the state is imposed upon us. There was a deal struck that, if any person who doesn't have a lawyer to bring a case before the courts, and if this person proves the fraud, and speaks the truth about the fraud, the courts are compelled to not allow the case to be cited or published anywhere. The courts cannot afford to have the case freely available in the public archives. This would be evidence of the fraud. That is why you can't hire an attorney. An attorney is compelled to uphold the fraud.

As I said before, all law has to be certified as constitutional by the state supreme court before it can be implemented. What is the source of this proposition? I think the war powers condition is cumulative since the civil war. I don't think WWII ever ended in the States. The judiciary act of 1948 was a wartime act. Peace did not come with Germany and Japan until after Korea was started which is still going on. UN was founded and entered into during WWII. The NC statutes read as if WWII war powers are still in effect.

In a civil case, would this not also apply to subpoena the certification of constitutionality?

All your questions and statements are irrelevant. I can see that it is difficult for you to accept so simple a truth. If you know the Constitution for the United States and the Constitutions for all the several states have been suspended, you should know you have no constitutional protection in any court in any district in this country. If we are supposed to have constitutional protections and they ceased to exist, we can only use the fact they they ceased to exist to defend ourselves. It doesn't matter if the court is using admiralty, law merchant, equity, or administrative. The government has never come out and made it a statement of fact that we are a de facto nation, with de facto courts, with judges sitting under the rule of necessity, and that we have no remedy in the courts, have they? Well, you need 3 things to be a nation under international law:

1.  de jure money

2.  de jure law

3.  a de jure army

We have none of these. We are a nation de facto, functioning under martial law with a de facto civil system enforced through police power. Is this too simple for you to understand?

Your only hope for remedy is to bring this fact into the courtroom and have the court either confirm your claim or dismiss. They will not confirm the facts, for to do so would cause the de facto system to fall apart. Their only option is to dismiss...

Ladies and Gentlemen: ABSENCE OF LAW IS THE REMEDY.

How many times have we been told by a Judge that the Constitution does not exist in his courtroom? He was telling us something very important but we weren't listening.....You have to empty your mind at look at "no law = no remedy." If there is no remedy there can be no charges of violating a law. It has always be understood that there MUST be a remedy for every violation of law. WE CAN'T find one, because one doesn't exist. BUT.....how often have you challenged the law you are accused of violating as being certified as constitutional by the supreme court of your state? I bet you have never done this. How many times have you subpoenaed the Attorney General of your state to testify to the constitutionality of the act you are charged with violating? NEVER?

It sounds too simple doesn't it? Perhaps remedy has been staring us in the face but we thought it was too simple a defense. Perhaps it is the only defense we have left.

From: Joyce Rosenwald [joycer@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 12:21 PM
To: Bob Hurt Subject: absence of remedy

As a researcher for many years I have been saying that "absence of law is the remedy."  No law, no violation or crime. The case below says "without the remedy the contract may, indeed, in the sense of the law, be said not to exist."  I think this is important. In tort law, a contract can't necessarily stipulate to a remedy other than jurisdiction and who will pay attorney fees. Where is the law?

Fifty years ago this Court pointed out the essential relationship between rights and remedies.

"Nothing can be more material to the obligation than the means of enforcement. Without the remedy the contract may, indeed, in the sense of the law, be said not to exist, and its obligation to fall within the class of those moral and social duties which depend for their fulfillment wholly upon the will of the individual. The ideas of validity and remedy are inseparable, and both are parts of the obligation, which is guaranteed by the Constitution against invasion. The obligation of a contract 'is the law which binds the parties to perform their agreement.'" Von Hoffman v. City of Quincy, 4 Wall. 535, 552.

red CROSS LINE vs. ATLANTIC FRUIT COMPANY.

No. 112.

SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

264 U.S. 109, 68 L.Ed. 582, 44 S. Ct. 274

February 18, 1924 Decided

Frankly, I do not see why the ABSENCE OF LAW issue cannot serve as a remedy in IRS cases.

Bob Hurt

REFERENCES

28 USC> PART VI > CHAPTER 161 > § 2403. Intervention by United States or a State; constitutional question

(a) In any action, suit or proceeding in a court of the United States to which the United States or any agency, officer or employee thereof is not a party, wherein the constitutionality of any Act of Congress affecting the public interest is drawn in question, the court shall certify such fact to the Attorney General, and shall permit the United States to intervene for presentation of evidence, if evidence is otherwise admissible in the case, and for argument on the question of constitutionality. The United States shall, subject to the applicable provisions of law, have all the rights of a party and be subject to all liabilities of a party as to court costs to the extent necessary for a proper presentation of the facts and law relating to the question of constitutionality.

(b) In any action, suit, or proceeding in a court of the United States to which a State or any agency, officer, or employee thereof is not a party, wherein the constitutionality of any statute of that State affecting the public interest is drawn in question, the court shall certify such fact to the attorney general of the State, and shall permit the State to intervene for presentation of evidence, if evidence is otherwise admissible in the case, and for argument on the question of constitutionality. The State shall, subject to the applicable provisions of law, have all the rights of a party and be subject to all liabilities of a party as to court costs to the extent necessary for a proper presentation of the facts and law relating to the question of constitutionality.

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure

IV. PARTIES > Rule 24. Intervention

(a) Intervention of Right.

Upon timely application anyone shall be permitted to intervene in an action: (1) when a statute of the United States confers an unconditional right to intervene; or (2) when the applicant claims an interest relating to the property or transaction which is the subject of the action and the applicant is so situated that the disposition of the action may as a practical matter impair or impede the applicant's ability to protect that interest, unless the applicant's interest is adequately represented by existing parties.

(b) Permissive Intervention.

Upon timely application anyone may be permitted to intervene in an action: (1) when a statute of the United States confers a conditional right to intervene; or (2) when an applicant's claim or defense and the main action have a question of law or fact in common. When a party to an action relies for ground of claim or defense upon any statute or executive order administered by a federal or state governmental officer or agency or upon any regulation, order, requirement, or agreement issued or made pursuant to the statute or executive order, the officer or agency upon timely application may be permitted to intervene in the action. In exercising its discretion the court shall consider whether the intervention will unduly delay or prejudice the adjudication of the rights of the original parties.

(c) Procedure.

A person desiring to intervene shall serve a motion to intervene upon the parties as provided in Rule 5. The motion shall state the grounds therefor and shall be accompanied by a pleading setting forth the claim or defense for which intervention is sought. The same procedure shall be followed when a statute of the United States gives a right to intervene.

When the constitutionality of an act of Congress affecting the public interest is drawn in question in any action in which the United States or an officer, agency, or employee thereof is not a party, the court shall notify the Attorney General of the United States as provided in Title 28, U.S.C., § 2403. When the constitutionality of any statute of a State affecting the public interest is drawn in question in any action in which that State or any agency, officer, or employee thereof is not a party, the court shall notify the attorney general of the State as provided in Title 28, U.S.C. § 2403. A party challenging the constitutionality of legislation should call the attention of the court to its consequential duty, but failure to do so is not a waiver of any constitutional right otherwise timely asserted.

Florida Rules of Civil Procedure

RULE 1.230 INTERVENTIONS

Anyone claiming an interest in pending litigation may at any time be permitted to assert a right by intervention, but the intervention shall be in subordination to, and in recognition of, the propriety of the main proceeding, unless otherwise ordered by court in its discretion.

Florida Rules of Appellate Procedure

RULE 9.150. DISCRETIONARY PROCEEDINGS TO REVIEW CERTIFIED QUESTIONS FROM FEDERAL COURTS

(a) Applicability. On either its own motion or that of a party, the Supreme Court of the United States or a United States court of appeals may certify a question of law to the Supreme Court of Florida if the answer is determinative of the cause and there is no controlling precedent of the Supreme Court of Florida.

(b) Certificate. The certificate shall contain the style of the case, a statement of the facts showing the nature of the cause and the circumstances out of which the questions of law arise, and the questions of law to be answered. The certificate shall be prepared as directed by the federal court. It shall be certified to the Supreme Court of Florida by the clerk of the federal court.

(c) Record. The Supreme Court of Florida, in its discretion, may require copies of all or any portion of the record before the federal court to be filed if the record may be necessary to the determination of the cause.

(d) Briefs. The brief of the party designated by the federal court as the moving party shall be served within 20 days of the filing of the certificate. Additional briefs shall be served as prescribed by rule 9.210.

(e) Costs. The costs of these proceedings shall be divided equally between the parties unless otherwise ordered by the court.

Committee Notes

1977 Amendment. This rule retains the substance of former rule 4.61. Except for simplification of language, the only change from the former rule is that answer and reply briefs are governed by the same time schedule as other cases. It is contemplated that the federal courts will continue the current practice of directing the parties to present a stipulated statement of the facts.

1980 Amendment. This rule is identical to former rule 9.510. It has been renumbered to reflect the addition to the Florida Constitution of article V, section 3(b)(6), which permits discretionary supreme court review of certified questions from the federal courts. Answer briefs and reply briefs will continue to be governed by the same time schedule as in other cases.

California Rules of Civil Procedure- Ca.R.C.P.

Rule 29.5. Questions of state law certified by federal appellate courts and other courts

(a) [Requirements for certified questions] The California Supreme Court may answer questions of law certified to it by the Supreme Court of the United States, a United States Court of

Appeals, or the court of last resort of any state, territory, or commonwealth, provided that:

(1) the certifying court requests the answer

(2) the questions may be determinative of a cause pending in the certifying court, and

(3) the decisions of the California appellate courts provide no controlling precedent concerning the certified question.

(b) [Contents of certification request] Only a court specified in subdivision (a) may certify question. The request shall be by an order that sets forth:

(1) the caption of the case, including names and addresses of counsel and of parties appearing pro se and a designation of he party to be deemed the petitioner on the certified question

if the request to answer is granted;

(2) the questions of law to be answered;

(3) a statement (by stipulation of the parties subject to approval by the certifying court, or by the court itself) of all facts relevant to the certified question, and showing fully the nature of the controversy and the circumstances in which the question arose;

(4) statements (i) demonstrating that the question certified is contested and that there is no controlling precedent in the case law of the California appellate courts, (ii) explaining how an authoritative answer to the certified question may be determinative of a cause pending in the certifying court; and (iii) indicating that the answer provided by the California Supreme Court will be followed by the certifying court; and

(5) such additional information as the certifying court may deem relevant and useful.

(c) [Briefs and other materials] The certifying court shall furnish legible copies of all relevant briefs to the California Supreme Court with the request for an answer to the certified question. The California Supreme Court may request that the certifying court furnish additional material, such as exhibits or all or a portion of the record that, in the opinion of the court, may be useful in answering the certified question.

(d) [Request procedure] The judge or justice presiding at the certification hearing (if any) or the presiding judge or justice of the court or panel certifying the question shall sign the request for an answer to the certified question, and the clerk of the certifying court shall forward it under its official seal to the California Supreme Court.

(e) [Factors that may be considered] The California Supreme Court shall have discretion to accept or deny the request for an answer to the certified question of law. In exercising its discretion the court may consider:

(1) factors that it ordinarily considers in deciding whether to grant review of a decision of a California Court of Appeal or to issue an alternative writ or other order in an original matter;

(2) comity, and whether answering the question will facilitate the certifying court's functioning or help terminate existing litigation;

(3) the extent to which an answer would turn on questions of fact; and

(4) any other factors the court may deem appropriate.

(f) [Clarification of question] At any time, the California Supreme Court may restate the certified question or may ask the certifying court to restate or clarify the certified question.

(g) [Order denying or accepting request] The California Supreme Court shall issue an order accepting or denying the request for an answer to the certified question. If the court accepts the

request, it shall announce that determination in the manner that it announces the acceptance of cases for review, and thereafter:

(1) the California Rules of Court for briefing, argument, and conduct of appeals shall govern further proceedings on any certified question unless the court or the Judicial Council otherwise provides;

(2) fees and costs shall be the same as in appeals docketed before the California Supreme Court and in civil matters, shall be equally divided between or among the parties unless the certifying court in its request for an answer to the certified question provides for a different allocation, or the California Supreme Court provides otherwise; and

(3) the California Supreme Court may in its discretion assign a certified question such priority on its docket as considerations of fairness, exigency, and comity may require.

(h) [Notice to California Attorney General] If the certified question concerns the proper interpretation of a California statute, in litigation in which the State of California or an officer, agency, or employee of the state is not a party, the clerk of the California Supreme Court shall notify the California Attorney General and the California Supreme Court may permit him or her to file briefs on the issue.

(i) [Transmission of opinion] The clerk shall forward the California Supreme Court's written opinion stating the law governing the certified question to the certifying court, under the seal of the Supreme Court, and also shall forward copies of the opinion to counsel of record.

(j) [Publication and precedential effect] The California Supreme Court's answer to a certified question shall have the same authoritative and precedential force as any other decision of the court, and shall be published in the official Reports.

(k) [Procedural rules] The California Supreme Court or the Judicial Council may adopt procedures governing practice under this rule.

(Adopted, eff. Jan. 1, 1998.)

[Amended December 27, 1946, effective March 19, 1948; December 29, 1948, effective October 20, 1949; January 21, 1963, effective July 1, 1963; February 28, 1966, effective July 1, 1966; March 2, 1987, effective August 1, 1987; April 30, 1991, effective December 1, 1991.]

California Codes California Code of Civil Procedure CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE SECTION 387-388 - INTERVENTION

387.  (a) Upon timely application, any person, who has an interest in the matter in litigation, or in the success of either of the parties, or an interest against both, may intervene in the action or proceeding.  An intervention takes place when a third person is permitted to become a party to an action or proceeding between other persons, either by joining the plaintiff in claiming what is sought by the complaint, or by uniting with the defendant in resisting the claims of the plaintiff, or by demanding anything adversely to both the plaintiff and the defendant, and is made by complaint, setting forth the grounds upon which the intervention rests, filed by leave of the court and served upon the parties to the action or proceeding who have not appeared in the same manner as upon the commencement of an original action, and upon the attorneys of the parties who have appeared, or upon the party if he has appeared without an attorney, in the manner provided for service of summons or in the manner provided by Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 1010) Title 14 of Part 2.  A party served with a complaint in intervention may within 30 days after service move, demur, or otherwise plead to the complaint in the same manner as to an original complaint.

(b) If any provision of law confers an unconditional right to intervene or if the person seeking intervention claims an interest relating to the property to transaction which is the subject of the action and that person is so situated that the disposition of the action may as a practical matter impair or impede that person's ability to protect that interest, unless that person's interest is adequately represented by existing parties, the court shall, upon timely application, permit that person to intervene.

388.  In an action brought by a party for relief of any nature other than solely for money damages where a pleading alleges facts or issues concerning alleged pollution or adverse environmental effects which could affect the public generally, the party filing the pleading shall furnish a copy to the Attorney General of the State of California.  The copy shall be furnished by the party filing the pleading within 10 days after filing.